NOTHING HAVE AGREED TO SQUARE OFF ON THURSDAY, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN AND FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP TAKE CENTER STAGE FOR THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE AND THERE ARE A FEW UNUSUAL THINGS ABOUT THIS ONE. IT’S TAKING PLACE BEFORE THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PARTY CONVENTIONS, MEANING BEFORE BIDEN OR TRUMP ARE OFFICIALLY NOMINATED AS THEIR PARTY’S CANDIDATES AND WITHOUT THE COMMISSION ON PRESIDENT FINAL DEBATES, THE BODY THAT HAS LONG OVERSEEN SCENE AND SET THE RULES FOR THESE EVENTS, KATHRYNBROWNELL IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT PURDUE UNIVERSITY. SHE SPECIALIZES IN THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE MEDIA AND THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY. IT’S SO NICE TO HAVE YOU, PROFESSOR BROWNELL. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME. OF COURSE. ALL RIGHT. WELL, TAKE US BACK TO THE VERY FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE. WHAT WAS THE THE FOCUS AND THE GOAL OF THAT FIRST DEBATE? SO THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE HAPPENS IN 1960 BETWEEN RICHARD NIXON AND JOHN KENNEDY. AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW THE TWO MEN LOOKED REALLY DOMINATED INTERPRETATIONS OF THAT ELECTION. AND SO THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY JOHN F KENNEDY WON THE 1960 ELECTION THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TV DEBATES. BUT IN THE MIND OF RICHARD NIXON AND POLITICAL CONSULTANTS AND MEDIA ADVISERS, THEY ARGUED THAT IT’S THE DEBATES AND NIXON’S POOR PRESENTATION HAS POOR IMAGE THAT REALLY HE LOST THE ELECTION FOR HIM. AND SO IN THE AFTERMATH OF THESE DEBATES, THIS EFFORT TO CONTROL TELEVISION IMAGE BECOMES A POLITICAL PRIORITY IF WE FAST FORWARD, IT’S NOT ONLY CONTROLLING THE IMAGE, IT’S ALSO CONTROLLING THE NARRATIVE OUT OF IT. ABSOLUTELY. AND THIS IS, AGAIN, A HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE 1976 ELECTION. THERE’S THIS ONE MOMENT WHERE GERALD FORD TALKS ABOUT THE SOVIET DOMINATION OF EASTERN EUROPE AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT IMMEDIATELY WASN’T A DEFINING MOMENT. BUT CARTER’S MEDIA TEAM REALLY GRABBED A HOLD OF THAT, AND IT REALLY INTRODUCED THIS IDEA THAT THAT WINNING THE NARRATIVE MATTERED MORE. DO YOU THINK, UM, PEOPLE TAKE WHAT COMES OUT OF THE DEBATES AS AN IMPORTANT MEASURE OF HOW THEY SHOULD THROW THEIR VOTE, OR ARE PEOPLE WATCHING THE DEBATES PRETTY MUCH WHO’VE ALREADY MADE UP THEIR MIND? I THINK, YOU KNOW, RESEARCH KIND OF SHOWS THAT PEOPLE ARE PRETTY ENTRENCHED IN TERMS OF THEIR POLITICAL THINKING AND THAT THEY THEY TUNE IN REALLY TO CHEER ON THEIR CANDIDATE AND TO PERHAPS JEER THE, THE OPPONENT. SO IT’S UNLIKELY THAT THE DEBATES WILL CHANGE MINDS. HOWEVER. JR, I DO THINK THAT IT IS AN IMPORTANT EVENT IN THE CAMPAIGN BECAUSE IT DOES BRING THE CANDIDATES INTO A CONVERSATION WITH ONE ANOTHER. IT DOES KIND OF CREATE A NATIONAL EXPERIENCE THAT EVERYONE IS WATCHING THE SAME CONVERSATION AT THE SAME TIME. THAT BEING SAID, WITH SOCIAL MEDIA THESE DAYS, YOU DON’T HAVE THE SPIN ROOM THAT’S HAPPENING AFTER THE DEBATES. YOU HAVE IT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT CAN KIND OF UNDERMINE THIS EFFORT TO HAVE A SHARED EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE HOW PEOPLE ARE WATCHING AND VIEWING AND PARTICIPATING IN THE DEBATE IS ALSO ON SOCIAL MEDIA. AND SO THEY’RE PICKING UP CERTAIN THINGS, UM, IN REAL TIME. HOW HAS SOCIAL MEDIA REALLY CHANGED THIS ENTIRE GAME SINCE THE 1960S, WHEN THERE WAS NONE? WELL, I THINK IT DOES BRING MORE PEOPLE INTO THE CONVERSATION. RIGHT? SO IT’S NOT JUST SOMEONE ONE SAYING THIS WAS WHAT WAS IMPORTANT FROM A PARTICULAR CAMPAIGN, BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE PEOPLE WHO COULD CALL ATTENTION TO CERTAIN ISSUES THAT RESONATED WITH THEM. SO I THINK IT’S IT’S BROADENED THE PARTICIPATION TO ALLOW MORE PEOPLE TO TO KIND OF SHAPE THAT THIS IS WHAT MATTERED TO THEM. BUT EACH OF THESE CANDIDATES HAS THEIR OWN PLATFORM. AND I’M CURIOUS IF YOU THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE MODERATED OFFICIAL DEBATES ARE EVEN IMPORTANT ANYMORE WHEN THEY CAN CREATE THEIR OWN CONTENT AND THEY DO EACH AND EVERY DAY. I THINK THEY ARE VERY IMPORTANT. STILL, BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS ARE SUPPORTING BIDEN MAY NOT ACTUALLY SEE WHAT TRUMP IS SAYING BECAUSE IT IS ON SUCH A DIFFERENT PLATFORM. AND AND THE REVERSE IS TRUE AS WELL. AND SO I THINK IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SUPPORTERS OF EACH CAMPAIGN TO HEAR WHAT THE OTHER CANDIDATE IS SAYING. KATHRYNBROWNELL FROM PURDUE